Gunmarks
BOB-D
[BOB-D]

Band of Brothers in Deutschland

EU

“Moin und Hallo!! Einfach Spaß am Spiel haben!!!”

Commander: Nissan0196 membersFounded 6 Jul 2017
Average WN8: GoodInvite only

Roster as of 10 Nov 2026 · 5 hours ago

Compare

About

Wer sind wir:


Wir sind ein ambitionierter, deutschsprachiger Fun - Clan.


Was bieten wir:


- Vorstoß, Bolle, Kampa etc..
- Tägl. Booster
- Eigenes TS
- Freiwillige WhatsApp Gruppe
- Training


Was suchen und erwarten wir:


- Bewerbungen nur per PN oder im TS!!!
- Ambitionierte, kritik - und teamfähige Mitspieler
- eine rege TS - aktivität
- WN8 sollte Clan Durchschnitt sein oder Recent 1500
- Mindestalter 16 Jahre
- Mindestens drei Meta Panzer der Stufe 10
- 140, 277, EBR, Chieftain, 907, 279f, 260, IS 7, E3, CS 63


Erfolge:


Aufschwung der Wirtschaft Platz 291
Metal Wars Platz 328
Renaissance Platz 224 - 15 Reward Tanks


TS: Bob-Deutschland.Teamspeak.de


Bewerbung: Nissan01, Tunnu2000


Diplomatie: Veni_Vidi


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(◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤ )

Founder
Nissan01
Clan id
500152265
Followed here since
14 Oct 2026

History

150 most recent events

10 Nov 2026

  • Assigned to Position

    Noticed 10 Nov 2026, 23:08 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Players (4) have been assigned to new positions.

    Changed between 10 Nov 2026, 11:24 UTC and 10 Nov 2026, 23:08 UTC.

9 Nov 2026

  • Accepted Members

    9 Nov 2026, 18:55 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player c63sAMG999 has been accepted to the clan.

  • Members Left

    Noticed 9 Nov 2026, 11:24 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Players (3) left the clan.

    Left between 8 Nov 2026, 11:23 UTC and 9 Nov 2026, 11:24 UTC.

8 Nov 2026

  • Accepted Members

    8 Nov 2026, 13:33 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player jonjuli has been accepted to the clan.

3 Nov 2026

  • Accepted Members

    3 Nov 2026, 15:42 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player A_M_L_82 has been accepted to the clan.

2 Nov 2026

  • Members Left

    Noticed 2 Nov 2026, 11:21 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Players (2) left the clan.

    Left between 1 Nov 2026, 11:21 UTC and 2 Nov 2026, 11:21 UTC.

1 Nov 2026

  • Accepted Members

    1 Nov 2026, 22:03 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Atz3np3ng has been accepted to the clan.

31 Oct 2026

  • Accepted Members

    31 Oct 2026, 19:16 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Odin181070 has been accepted to the clan.

29 Oct 2026

  • Accepted Members

    29 Oct 2026, 12:30 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player SneakyLittleBugger has been accepted to the clan.

22 Oct 2026

  • Members Left

    Noticed 22 Oct 2026, 11:16 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player SgtKowalskii left the clan.

    Left between 21 Oct 2026, 11:16 UTC and 22 Oct 2026, 11:16 UTC.

20 Oct 2026

  • Members Left

    Noticed 20 Oct 2026, 11:15 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player T_O_M_95 left the clan.

    Left between 19 Oct 2026, 11:15 UTC and 20 Oct 2026, 11:15 UTC.

19 Oct 2026

  • Members Left

    Noticed 19 Oct 2026, 11:15 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player HelmutR68 left the clan.

    Left between 18 Oct 2026, 09:51 UTC and 19 Oct 2026, 11:15 UTC.

18 Oct 2026

  • Members Left

    Noticed 18 Oct 2026, 09:51 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player SkillHoffnungslos left the clan.

    Left between 17 Oct 2026, 09:51 UTC and 18 Oct 2026, 09:51 UTC.

17 Oct 2026

  • Accepted Members

    17 Oct 2026, 18:29 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player MLHobbit has been accepted to the clan.

16 Sept 2026

  • Accepted Members

    16 Sept 2026, 19:33 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player renner1978 has been accepted to the clan.

14 Sept 2026

  • Accepted Members

    14 Sept 2026, 10:12 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player martini030 has been accepted to the clan.

8 Sept 2026

  • Accepted Members

    8 Sept 2026, 19:45 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Acer0815 has been accepted to the clan.

7 Sept 2026

  • Accepted Members

    7 Sept 2026, 16:41 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _Lawist_ has been accepted to the clan.

30 Aug 2026

  • Accepted Members

    30 Aug 2026, 08:29 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Pescel99 has been accepted to the clan.

29 Aug 2026

  • Accepted Members

    29 Aug 2026, 20:48 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player curbrigen has been accepted to the clan.

28 Aug 2026

  • Members Left

    28 Aug 2026, 19:42 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Atz3np3ng left the clan.

17 Aug 2026

  • Accepted Members

    17 Aug 2026, 13:26 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _getJinxed has been accepted to the clan.

16 Aug 2026

  • Accepted Members

    16 Aug 2026, 17:24 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Atz3np3ng has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

4 Aug 2026

  • Accepted Members

    4 Aug 2026, 20:46 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Sandman_Ironcross has been accepted to the clan.

30 Jul 2026

  • Members Left

    30 Jul 2026, 19:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player ste123ven left the clan.

5 Jul 2026

  • Accepted Members

    5 Jul 2026, 22:50 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player no_risc_but_i_am_all_in has been accepted to the clan.

4 Jul 2026

  • Members Left

    4 Jul 2026, 22:54 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player demolitionsold left the clan.

30 May 2026

  • Accepted Members

    30 May 2026, 21:11 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Murram has been accepted to the clan.

18 May 2026

  • Accepted Members

    18 May 2026, 22:23 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player tehblue has been accepted to the clan.

14 May 2026

  • Accepted Members

    14 May 2026, 11:13 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player MC_TiTTe has been accepted to the clan.

3 May 2026

  • Accepted Members

    3 May 2026, 09:05 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player demolitionsold has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

20 Apr 2026

  • Accepted Members

    20 Apr 2026, 19:55 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Raziofarm has been accepted to the clan.

6 Apr 2026

  • Members Left

    6 Apr 2026, 10:17 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player DokSchlomo left the clan.

5 Apr 2026

  • Accepted Members

    5 Apr 2026, 19:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player paul_stahlhart has been accepted to the clan.

30 Mar 2026

  • Members Left

    30 Mar 2026, 16:48 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Jenner12 left the clan.

28 Mar 2026

  • Members Left

    28 Mar 2026, 13:32 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _P_o_H_2 left the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    28 Mar 2026, 03:39 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player jubu160714_2 has been accepted to the clan.

27 Mar 2026

  • Accepted Members

    27 Mar 2026, 09:39 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player oKRAUTo has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    27 Mar 2026, 09:35 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player nurdennis has been accepted to the clan.

22 Mar 2026

  • Accepted Members

    22 Mar 2026, 16:58 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Jansave has been accepted to the clan.

10 Mar 2026

  • Accepted Members

    10 Mar 2026, 22:49 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Maggus633 has been accepted to the clan.

24 Feb 2026

  • Accepted Members

    24 Feb 2026, 20:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _P_o_H_2 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

22 Feb 2026

  • Accepted Members

    22 Feb 2026, 10:26 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player deine_mudder_junge has been accepted to the clan.

21 Feb 2026

  • Accepted Members

    21 Feb 2026, 16:28 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player AkaPain has been accepted to the clan.

18 Feb 2026

  • Members Left

    18 Feb 2026, 18:06 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player danjo left the clan.

16 Feb 2026

  • Members Left

    16 Feb 2026, 15:59 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Patten_90 left the clan.

14 Feb 2026

  • Members Left

    14 Feb 2026, 20:06 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Xerb left the clan.

11 Feb 2026

  • Accepted Members

    11 Feb 2026, 20:58 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player RealTrueForce has been accepted to the clan.

28 Jan 2026

  • Accepted Members

    28 Jan 2026, 22:41 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player R0cker has been accepted to the clan.

22 Jan 2026

  • Accepted Members

    22 Jan 2026, 16:19 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player RaiderTwixx has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    22 Jan 2026, 13:27 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Eis_Krieger has been accepted to the clan.

11 Jan 2026

  • Accepted Members

    11 Jan 2026, 15:38 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player enZin4toR has been accepted to the clan.

10 Jan 2026

  • Accepted Members

    10 Jan 2026, 18:51 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player lMickl has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    10 Jan 2026, 14:44 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player ste123ven has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

  • Accepted Members

    10 Jan 2026, 13:26 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Herbert47 has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    10 Jan 2026, 12:29 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Zamon has been accepted to the clan.

30 Dec 2025

  • Accepted Members

    30 Dec 2025, 01:49 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player combat_dog has been accepted to the clan.

29 Dec 2025

  • Accepted Members

    29 Dec 2025, 15:56 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player I_Bims_Eins_Girl_Bot has been accepted to the clan.

12 Dec 2025

  • Accepted Members

    12 Dec 2025, 16:55 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player CaNHappeN has been accepted to the clan.

1 Dec 2025

  • Accepted Members

    1 Dec 2025, 20:40 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Satinkamed has been accepted to the clan.

28 Nov 2025

  • Accepted Members

    28 Nov 2025, 20:04 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Jenner12 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

11 Nov 2025

  • Accepted Members

    11 Nov 2025, 18:48 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player pate78 has been accepted to the clan.

8 Nov 2025

  • Accepted Members

    8 Nov 2025, 09:36 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _Abli_ has been accepted to the clan.

7 Nov 2025

  • Accepted Members

    7 Nov 2025, 21:37 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player stinger2k12 has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    7 Nov 2025, 19:24 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Black_Edder has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    7 Nov 2025, 13:56 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player tonimaster has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    7 Nov 2025, 05:23 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player AndreasIV666 has been accepted to the clan.

6 Nov 2025

  • Accepted Members

    6 Nov 2025, 21:52 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _RainLord_ has been accepted to the clan.

2 Nov 2025

  • Members Left

    2 Nov 2025, 00:10 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Dr_Vorpeitscher left the clan.

30 Oct 2025

  • Accepted Members

    30 Oct 2025, 15:03 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player HolzwurmLars has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    30 Oct 2025, 06:41 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Simothras has been accepted to the clan.

28 Oct 2025

  • Members Left

    28 Oct 2025, 21:00 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Caese left the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    28 Oct 2025, 20:06 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _JAST_ has been accepted to the clan.

24 Oct 2025

  • Accepted Members

    24 Oct 2025, 20:25 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Patten_90 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

3 Oct 2025

  • Members Left

    3 Oct 2025, 20:37 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Cabuha left the clan.

1 Oct 2025

  • Accepted Members

    1 Oct 2025, 16:50 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player deki3 has been accepted to the clan.

20 Sept 2025

  • Members Left

    20 Sept 2025, 05:35 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player PRosPAN left the clan.

14 Sept 2025

  • Members Left

    14 Sept 2025, 19:46 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player lukas123_31 left the clan.

31 Aug 2025

  • Accepted Members

    31 Aug 2025, 18:19 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Willyjaehde has been accepted to the clan.

24 Aug 2025

  • Accepted Members

    24 Aug 2025, 14:49 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player PRosPAN has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

15 Jul 2025

  • Accepted Members

    15 Jul 2025, 18:03 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player lukas123_31 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

30 Jun 2025

  • Accepted Members

    30 Jun 2025, 22:32 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Cabuha has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

23 Jun 2025

  • Members Left

    23 Jun 2025, 20:00 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player renamed_682892589 left the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    23 Jun 2025, 19:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Techtec has been accepted to the clan.

21 Jun 2025

  • Members Left

    21 Jun 2025, 12:18 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Henker13 left the clan.

11 Jun 2025

  • Accepted Members

    11 Jun 2025, 19:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player TheMagicLuke has been accepted to the clan.

26 May 2025

  • Accepted Members

    26 May 2025, 20:53 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player danjo has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

20 May 2025

  • Accepted Members

    20 May 2025, 07:42 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player renamed_682892589 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

25 Mar 2025

  • Members Left

    25 Mar 2025, 19:41 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Nightscooter left the clan.

26 Feb 2025

  • Members Left

    26 Feb 2025, 20:03 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player carcoo left the clan.

  • Members Left

    26 Feb 2025, 17:43 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Shagbag left the clan.

20 Feb 2025

  • Accepted Members

    20 Feb 2025, 13:14 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player 6PzGrBt391EA has been accepted to the clan.

18 Feb 2025

  • Members Left

    18 Feb 2025, 18:15 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player 6PzGrBt391EA left the clan.

29 Jan 2025

  • Accepted Members

    29 Jan 2025, 11:37 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Dr_CaramelCoffee has been accepted to the clan.

24 Jan 2025

  • Accepted Members

    24 Jan 2025, 20:19 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Dr_Vorpeitscher has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

11 Jan 2025

  • Accepted Members

    11 Jan 2025, 12:59 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player n8mahr_ has been accepted to the clan.

3 Jan 2025

  • Members Left

    3 Jan 2025, 15:41 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Wene left the clan.

22 Dec 2024

  • Members Left

    22 Dec 2024, 23:49 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Hyrcleon left the clan.

5 Dec 2024

  • Accepted Members

    5 Dec 2024, 11:08 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Henker13 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

2 Dec 2024

  • Accepted Members

    2 Dec 2024, 20:37 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player kurzer99 has been accepted to the clan.

26 Nov 2024

  • Accepted Members

    26 Nov 2024, 17:13 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Shagbag has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

24 Nov 2024

  • Accepted Members

    24 Nov 2024, 13:32 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player carcoo has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

21 Nov 2024

  • Accepted Members

    21 Nov 2024, 15:55 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Lahoo has been accepted to the clan.

16 Nov 2024

  • Accepted Members

    16 Nov 2024, 18:40 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player DokSchlomo has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

12 Nov 2024

  • Accepted Members

    12 Nov 2024, 16:45 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player AlfalfaSteel has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    12 Nov 2024, 08:30 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Wene has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

29 Oct 2024

  • Members Left

    29 Oct 2024, 16:39 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player sufyan98 left the clan.

27 Oct 2024

  • Members Left

    27 Oct 2024, 19:43 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Shagbag left the clan.

26 Oct 2024

  • Accepted Members

    26 Oct 2024, 19:06 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Nightscooter has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

25 Oct 2024

  • Members Left

    25 Oct 2024, 22:06 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player zimmer_42 left the clan.

  • Members Left

    25 Oct 2024, 16:26 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player carcoo left the clan.

21 Oct 2024

  • Members Left

    21 Oct 2024, 21:10 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Henker13 left the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    21 Oct 2024, 20:48 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Hyrcleon has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

  • Accepted Members

    21 Oct 2024, 19:26 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player KLS_Yamikaze has been accepted to the clan.

15 Oct 2024

  • Members Left

    15 Oct 2024, 18:48 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player renamed_543180879 left the clan.

4 Oct 2024

  • Accepted Members

    4 Oct 2024, 20:46 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player 6PzGrBt391EA has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

3 Sept 2024

  • Members Left

    3 Sept 2024, 20:12 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player little_big_tank left the clan.

27 Jun 2024

  • Accepted Members

    27 Jun 2024, 16:21 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player sufyan98 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

2 Jun 2024

  • Accepted Members

    2 Jun 2024, 22:25 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player THALAMUS63 has been accepted to the clan.

31 May 2024

  • Accepted Members

    31 May 2024, 18:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Mopsweiler has been accepted to the clan.

12 Apr 2024

  • Members Left

    12 Apr 2024, 10:19 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Kolnak left the clan.

6 Apr 2024

  • Accepted Members

    6 Apr 2024, 21:14 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Xerb has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

11 Mar 2024

  • Accepted Members

    11 Mar 2024, 17:12 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player zimmer_42 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

12 Feb 2024

  • Accepted Members

    12 Feb 2024, 19:27 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player little_big_tank has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

30 Jan 2024

  • Accepted Members

    30 Jan 2024, 19:30 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player konchulio87 has been accepted to the clan.

13 Jan 2024

  • Accepted Members

    13 Jan 2024, 16:38 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Morihei123 has been accepted to the clan.

23 Dec 2023

  • Members Left

    23 Dec 2023, 21:04 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player MarjoSon left the clan.

21 Dec 2023

  • Accepted Members

    21 Dec 2023, 08:20 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player XxXLockeXxX has been accepted to the clan.

22 Sept 2023

  • Accepted Members

    22 Sept 2023, 17:52 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Ente00 has been accepted to the clan.

24 Jun 2023

  • Accepted Members

    24 Jun 2023, 14:00 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Schepperlex_98 has been accepted to the clan.

26 May 2023

  • Accepted Members

    26 May 2023, 18:20 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player 404RNG has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    26 May 2023, 09:59 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player henry_irons has been accepted to the clan.

2 May 2023

  • Accepted Members

    2 May 2023, 19:24 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Kolnak has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

19 Mar 2023

  • Members Left

    19 Mar 2023, 20:48 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Ente00 left the clan.

17 Mar 2023

  • Members Left

    17 Mar 2023, 21:30 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player SUPERfloh2000 left the clan.

  • Members Left

    17 Mar 2023, 18:06 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player BX44 left the clan.

16 Mar 2023

  • Members Left

    16 Mar 2023, 14:55 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Murakami_Kuroko left the clan.

15 Feb 2023

  • Accepted Members

    15 Feb 2023, 18:39 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Caese has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

14 Feb 2023

  • Accepted Members

    14 Feb 2023, 23:13 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player _Blackhornet_ has been accepted to the clan.

13 Feb 2023

  • Accepted Members

    13 Feb 2023, 20:41 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Elite1 has been accepted to the clan.

  • Accepted Members

    13 Feb 2023, 17:22 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player SUPERfloh2000 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

12 Feb 2023

  • Accepted Members

    12 Feb 2023, 20:50 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Murakami_Kuroko has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

  • Accepted Members

    12 Feb 2023, 16:57 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player BX44 has been accepted to the clan.

    No longer a member.

10 Dec 2022

  • Accepted Members

    10 Dec 2022, 04:14 UTCMilitary Personnel

    Player Ktommy has been accepted to the clan.

A join is exact: Wargaming lists it with the roster. A departure or a change of position is noticed when the roster is next refreshed, so it is shown with the window it happened in — this clan has been followed since 14 Oct 2026. Changes of position are known only from when this site began recording them; earlier ones are not shown. Where a player’s own membership history has been fetched, its exact dates are shown instead, including earlier ones.